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Nice Girls Don't Watch the Bachelor
Nice Girls Don't Watch the Bachelor

Episode 6 · 1 year ago

Episode 6

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In episode 6, I share my perspective on discipline and how it's a prerequisite to finding meaning and purpose in your career. To help bring this topic to life, I talk to Will Eagle, seasoned brand and marketing professional, as well as author of "YouTube Marketing for Dummies" and "Read This if You Want to be YouTube Famous." 


Referred to in this episode: http://www.wisdomination.com/screw-motivation-what-you-need-is-discipline/

Hey guys, it's Marissa or leadership,speaker and author of Leanout, the truth about women, power and theworkplace, and welcome to this episode of Nice. Girls don't watch the bachelorwhere we discuss all things. Women and all things work, and today we're goingto talk about discipline. Now, people who know me personally would probablyfind it a bit funny that I'd be speaking on this subject as any sort ofproclaimed authority, because I've always been way more impulsive thananything close to disciplined. I mean I was a good student and that I got goodgrades, but I was never what you'd call studious and I worked hard and to dwellin my career, but it kind of happened in these short burst of frenetic energy,mostly inspired by a last minute deadline, this way of life. For me,however, completely changed once I decided to write a book, I spent a lotof time researching the idea of discipline and I came away with atotally different understanding of what it truly means and why it's important,so I'm going to spend the first fifteen minutes or so today, sharing myperspective and what I learned and hopefully offering a new way to thinkabout discipline, and then we will talk about it with today's guest will eagleso will is a former colleague of mine from Google, where he led one of thelargest sales divisions at Youtube, he's now at Pinterist, and will hiswritten three books on video and brand marketing youtube for dummies. Readthis if you want to be youtube famous and he's the coauthor of making youtubevideos he's currently working on a book about Ticktop, which I know my kidswill be super excited about. So given wills, broad range of experiences intack in the Corporate World and as a writer and a published author, he willhave a lot of interesting things to say on the topic of discipline. So we'llget that conversation a little later in the episode. So first, let's talk aboutdiscipline if you've listened to the show before you've heard me talk aboutthe fact that before I wrote men out it actually never written anything in anyreal way. Apart from a few blog posts that nobody read and two novels that Iwrote with my best friend in middle school, which a few people read so whenI became serious about writing len now. The very first thing I did was Googlehad to write a book, so I could actually learn how to do it and there'sa ton of resources out there and books about it and they do a fairly good jobof way out the process. Technically, it's really not that difficult tofollow. I mean Yo write an outline, the structure Etcte, but what those booksdidn't say. I was how hard it is to actually sit down and wrigt. There isno immediate payoff to writing or almost any creative project. Really youmight put tons of effort into something that turns out badly that nobody willsee or read. You never even bother to finish so right off the back with anycreative endeavor, it's almost easier, not to try. For me, a bad draft makesme feel worse than writing. Nothing at all. It feels much better for me tospend that time, sweeping or cleating the house, because the results areimmediate. The Clean House feels good or escaping into an episode of theBachelor feels even better as human beings. We are animals that are wiredfor short term payoff and writing. Like many things takes a lot of time with noguarantee of a Paath at all. So once I learned the technical aspects of how towrite the book, I then had to learn the behavioral ones, and I moved on tobooks about the writing process. From authors, like Anne Lamat, who wrote anamazing and Hilarious Book, I recommend called bird by bird. I read StephenKing's book called on writing, which was awesome. I read everything byStephen Pricefield and Julia Cameron and the most critical thing I learned.I learned a lot from these authors, but the most important one was establishinga routine. I needed a time in a place...

...where I'd write every single day, whichwould then eventually form a habit. So I embraced this idea and I structuredmy mournings where I was still working at facebook and I would get up early. Iwould mostly try for four thirty, which usually ended up being five or sometimes five, thirty and then, by a certain time, my butt was in my seattyping. But again this was an easy thing inconcepts of I difficult and execution, because even the best routine in theworld won't save you. If you skip days or you just don't do it when you don'tfeel like doing it and honestly, I almost never feel. Like writing. Ialmost always feel like doing something else like anything else. So what Ilearned is that productivity and discipline- it's not so much about theprocess or about it's not about time management. It's really about emotionalmanagement. It's about overcoming the urge to do something more satisfying orsomething with an immediate patoff. Even deciding not to write, gives meimmediate relief of actually not having to write there 's this great article. Iread that had this really awesome way of framing this whole thing for me andI'll share it in the show notes, but essentially the author explains wife,so harmful to rely on motivation in order to accomplish something whenyou're motivated and by the way harmful to Relyan motivation instead ofdiscipline, he or she I don't, unfortunately,remember but again, I will put it in the show notes. He or she explains thatwhen you're motivated, you feel great, you feel in the mood to do the thingsthat are usually difficult like working out if you're super motivated to fitinto your Jens, like motivation, is that energy and that good feeling weget from imagining the end result of our hard work and when we're motivatedthings are easier to do, which is why we often believe that motivation is thenecessary precurser in order to get stuff done or undertake a project, andI found this to be true of my initial experience. In writing. The book like Iwas very motivated by fantasies of the unresult what it would be like to havethe book on the shelf to be interviewed on TV. You know it's all ego, itdoesn't mean, that's not helpful. I love feeling motivated to Right Andinthe Times that I write when I'm feeling motivated writing doesn't feeldifficult at all. I love it. The problem is, I feel like that, may beone percent of the time I sit down to write and the other ninety nine percent.I literally rather bedoing anything else in the world, so erelying onmotivation simply doesn't work. I used to think that motivation was thekey that started the engine of discipline, but is this author pointedout and what I found to be true is we can't rely on those feelings becausethey're fleeting, so they suggest that instead, you need to completelyseparate feeling from action, and that is the key to discipline. It doesn'tmean you don't feel how you feel or you try not to feel a certain way. Youcan't change that. It means the feeling doesn't dictate the behavior. You dothe routine, regardless of whether you're feeling great or horrible aboutit, and when we continually do something we do it consistently, evenwhen we don't feel like it over time. We start to not only see the fruits ofour labor. We feel good about ourselves from having stuck with it, and that iswhat motivates US and sustains that motivation over time. So I would remindmyself of that during the many days where I felt like I'd rather be gougingmy eyes out with a for then sitting down to write, I'd acknowledged thatfeeling and I would write anyway, I would just say to myself just getstarted for one minute and some days so I've Seid a limit. I had to write forat least thirty minutes, but when I didn't feel like it, I would mentallytrick myself and say just for a minute and some days you know thet entirethirty minutes felt like thirty hours...

...it. It was torture and other days. Thefirst minute was hard and then suddenly an hour would go by and I writtensomething I was excited about. So the key is to do to do it every single day,regardless of how you feel about it. For me, that is the essence ofdiscipline. I want to talk about something related I'll tie it alltogether at the end, but I often get questions from women about you knowwhat I'm doing when I'm on stage and speaking afterward. A lot of people askme how to pursue something like a book while working, fulltime and raisingkids, because perhaps you don't feel very satisfied in their day, job andthey're amazed to find out that you know I finishd this book proposal,while managing a fulltime job and being a single mom with three kids, and whenI get this question, I asually tell them the story about a friend of minefrom Google. Yo quote a quote: Lisa Lisa and I were once having aconversation about our careers and she was sort of saying that she was unhappywith her current roles. She was just feeling very unsatisfied and I askedher what she do if, like money and time were not an issue and she said that herreal passion was interior design like if she could do anything, she wouldjust be an an interior designer full time, but I forty five years old shewas, and a ten year old at homeshe's, also a single mom. It just wasn'trealistic for her, so she said she doesn't even really think about itanymore and doesn't even really make an effort. The problem is, I tried to point out toher was that she was seeing it as an all or nothing thing, which is the samefor people who have this idea of writing a book. The idea of writing abook or being an interior designer, like these things, could take years andthere's a part of us. It's not even sure, that's what they really want todo. It just sounds Nice. It just feels so overwhelming like too much like. Ijust can't it's paralyzing, so we just do nothing, so I had suggested to Lisothat she not think of it as I'm. An interior designer- or I keep my job here- Google, whichI'm unhappy with, but I'm resigned to it, and I said instead of thinking it of itthat way, it's too big. She needs to think about a small, a much smaller waylike is there a way she can incorporate the joy of interior design into herlife? That doesn't mean she has to quit her job, so we started talking about itand she mentioned that they were redesigning the cafe and where of thebuildings of Poogle, and we knew the facilities manager. So she ended uptalking to her and asking if she can, you know, participate in some way andshe ended up getting very involved like she was in charge of fabrics orsomething like that, and it was very fulfilling to her in this in the shortterm project. But the point of this is to relate it back to rating a book forpeople that want to pursue something like this, like writing a book orsomething creative, but they don't think they have the time. I suggest thesame thing is not thinking about it as this like big paralyzing thing. Instead,you think about it as something you will do every day, even if its forfifteen minutes- and that could be. You know, writing for fifteen minutes everymorning when you wake up or on the bus or every night, when you go to bed orat lunch or whatever, but picking that time and place and really committing to using that fifteenminutes or whatever to working on whatever it is. Is A side note in that book by StevhenKing on writing. He talks about the fact that he would write during storiesduring lunch. His lunch break, while he was a teacher at a school, never reallythought anything would come with come from it, but even if you end up doingthat and you produce really nothing, it still teaches you discipline it teachesyou how to follow through on something, even when you don't feel like it, andthat in and of itself is so worth it, because it translates to so many otherareas of your life...

...and another great thing about it is ifyou try this stuff, it ends up helping you figure out what truly is meaningfuland what does give you a sense of purpose. We rarely figure out what'smeaningful and purposeful in our lives just from thinking about it, n theabstract, it takes doing and testing figuring things out, which is somethingthat requires discipline. So in a weird way. I really believe you need some sort ofdiscipline to figure out what you're meant to do. What your purpose is,because it comes from the action versus the thinking. So there is my perspective ondiscipline and how it ties into meeting and purpose, and I'm excited to hearwhat will eagle has to say on the topic. So we'll welcome well to the show will eagle welcome to nice. Girls,don't watch the bachelor. I'm very excited to talk to you today and thankyou for being here thank Youe. So let's get right into it.I'm going to start out by asking you how you think about the idea of meaningor the pursuit of meaning when it comes to your career ohgos. This is such a big question:Isn't it man, Kno Yeah, I know, and then I knowyou and I have struggledwith it over the years and will continue to for many more. I suppose I think I initially startedthinking about meaning particularl t e context of careers. Is it somethingthat is objectively valuable? Is itsomething that other people would would say it has meaning? However, you definethat, but of course it's much better. Thefine meeting on your own terms, I for me, I now think about meaning it,particularly the contlext of my careers. Am I spending my time in a way that Icansit the meaning for like? Would I do? Would I spend more time on this whun? Ispend the same time again doing this thing, or was this sort of an eyerolling moment of this is a waste of time. That's a little bit abstract, butmaybe do that ot us sof someway, perhaps absolutely, and I would thinkthat it's meaning, which caused you to take a detour in your career, fromworking in the corporate world to writing books and pursuing othercreative project. So was that a result of these larger questions about meaning,or was that some other sort of random detour yeah? I think it probably was you know when we both work together, aGoogle and when you work at Google, eventually you aither you're, eitherthere for life or you quit and you enjoy the startup or you write a bookor you do a you, pray, love, and so I did all of those in variouscombinations and Ei have to stop you and ask whatthe pray love moment was because I sure have one too. But I want to hear yourswell, I mean you'll. Remember because I would call you when I was at like Ihave a cabin in the woods in like Rural Ontario, an Canada and so for me itwasn't necessarily going on a world tour or something like that. It was going there. I spend a lot more timecooking when I'm there, because there isn't anywere else to go for food. Soyou got to cook and thinking about things and havingyou know, conversations with you and other friends and and then doing thingsth. I really that were more sort of medistive. So, like I built a vegetablecage, so I could go out Anan employ without the deas eating my vegetablesand things like that, so that was kind of my equivalent. I like to I go to thewoods when I does that help you kind of Clar, like sort of get clarity on whatyou want to do next, definitely yeah. Sometimes you just got Ta. You can'tfigure it out. Whath your brain go work it out with your hands, Miputti them inthe ground or doing something else I fin. I remember God, so go ahead! Marsa!I'm sorry! I interrupted you. I want to...

...hear the story of how this all UNFOLDAT,in terms of you know, you left, Google. You havethis great place in the woods. Your retreat, your what's the guy's name onWalds therow. You have your hear walls, an behind. How did that you know wead to the book,fleshbooks and sort of put you on the path that you're on now and like EBE,how meaning sort of manifest in that journey? Well. Well, yeah! So I thinkevery two ways of like y. Why did any of this happen? One was, I e, remember, distinctly likedriving home from the Finish Google Office, in Los Angeles and being on thephone with two twore, close friends who are Ameried couple and just sort ofbasically it's a kind of Ableiq conversation where I just like havingmy exessential crisis, I realize now that was a lot due to you know,traveling, seventy five percent of the time of being exhausted, the organizational change that meantthe grand was Orrship, you gon to your feutof Google, and maybe too muchcaffeine, causing anxiety, and so that was oneone moment that really sticks in my mind of like where I was just like whatI remember saying what is the meaning of any of this Li any of this? Why am Idoing anything and I'm sure we all have those those moments and then the secondreason I said of so so what was okay, you know googles a fantastic company. Iactually really did enjoy my job and I left the company, but just by its flaws,but I knew it wasn't enough and the second reason being is money. I wasthinking about this this morning in avonce of our conversation, and youknow I won- I was thinking about. Why do I worry about money as much as I do? I think it's because my parents wereyoung kids in in World War Two, and so they o would tell me stories aboutbeing in the Bob shelter and all that kind of a thing, and they grew up in avery you know: poornd Working Class Famy, it's I guess it's almost Plichet,because it's kind of a classic story, but they both Lak incredibly hard andlike physically for my father, was a prodplayer to give a better life to meand my sister and their biggest worryd was what they have enough sort offinancial resources to pay for any medical care that might come up in thefuture and and both of them needed that and I'm happy to say that because ofthe Howa, they were able to like look after themselves, and I was able tohelp look after them and the finances went an issue in the moments beforethey were pefor the PARASSD. But I think at kind of stuck with me: I don'tworry about money and if you you know, you might have semdledupon these things on the Internet, where there's Thi sort of idea thatsopping your time for money is like a scam. Have you ever come across thatyeah? What do you mean? Like you know, time is really the it is. You know themost precious resource. We have it's the only thing that that you know wehave that you can't ever get back get more of, and so, if we's stopping ourtime our most precious resourls. Are we stopping it food through Enoush enoughmenmy? I suppose, in order to facilitate what you know, it's notabout having money or holding money or anything like that. I I have no desireto be rich or wealthy. I just want to have the tool necessary to be able tobe okay, make freedom, and I think about Eit Eedin. Yeah freedom is agreat word for it because when, when you don't when, when money is kind ofoff the table, however, you define that, then you have a sense of freedom and you know Google A to come to thepace very well. I also fully recognize like how it sounds when we have thesekinds of conversations, because it's all redative, but Google pays reallywell, but you're still swopping your time for money, and so I thought, okaywell I'll, take another concept that Google wull drill into us, which is theadurate scale. How do I make something that is of me for me that I benfit fromthat can scale and the bend exampl like...

I came up with us a book. You know it'ssomething that you write once and you can distribute many and and go from hit.It's ve Ara kind of four hour work week like build subthing, something thatmakes money in the background, yeah and I'll go on the REC on this podcast issaying I think Tim pers is fot a fucking Shit D. I do because I thinkhe's just another, just another white guy. That's sellinga bunch of shit to people and they buy it this whole. Like worshipping or this cult of like CEOSand like talking to all these powerful people. I mean the four our work weekis the best example and I bought that book three times like one copy herelost. It gave it away another copy, and then we read it again, because no onethat reads that book ends up having befor our work week. CENTOR Jim TimFerris doesn't have afor or work. It's so true. I never thought about it thatway, so I'm making a note to explore that one further, because we don't knowhow much I love reading people's Bullshit. So I'm Gointo go back to that one, butyou're right. My thought always reading that stuff is clearly these peoplenever had. Kids, which I know is a one perspective to look at it, but there'smany others, so thes anxiety you have about you had about money. Did that.How did that sort of keep you from pursuing what you wanted to, or was ita catolist for it yeah good question? I is the catalystfor, and I'm still working on that so basically so I leave Google, I go offand I do whatever it. I do. Do I'm in the woods and I'm tking to figure thisout and kind of end up at three three bucketsof like all right. There are things there are projects that you can do byyourself under your own steam power, see if youcan actually make those yeld the return. There is a job job that you can getwhete. You swop your time for money and the more money you want for that time,t the less meaning it has the more stressful. It is typically and the third is, you know the classicthing you do, afeter good as you join a start up, so that you build somethingthat u you can thensell, but there's obviously riskonsong still thinking about all three of thosebuckets, and I realize that it's not choosing between one it's aboutfluctuating between the three of them, maybe ven doing one two or threef themat the same time and and that's kind of where I'm at at so I don't know if Ifigure that out we're Goe it wrong yet, but I guess we'll see, did you have ita pipany moment you started to mention the conversation you had in the car wasthat a significant peace of this or just sort of like an example of thesetypes of things that bubble up on the journey itinmaybe in reprospective as asignificant pieace like? I don't think I really thought of it, because it'just so much a regular part of my day and I'm sure you had momhers, where youfelt like this two, where you don't even realize just how hard it can bebecause you' just in it all the time and again sort of been full cando. Imean one of the real wekup moments is haing a full breakdown and anm off sate, where I you know locked myself in a atent for like three DDAYS and didn't eat, because I was just just justhaving a breakton just too much overwhelm Ju Yu, the Welm yeah justcouldn't manage, couldn't cope, and you know I don't didn't want to. I hadto take a long look at that and say: okay. Well, that's a good mental health.That's a good physical health ats, so a hand spending my time and then part ofthat is having those conconversations with the suff ware. What has meaning tome right? No, it's! I totally really now. The second piece of today's episode isabout discipline. So I'm going to ask you a question that sort of bridgesinto that topic, which is how do you decide where to spend yourtime and what to work on and what projects to choose? Is there a strategyyou have? Where is it sort of like you know in the moment you sort of filterout things and make the decision like what does that look like to you?...

Thank you for the question. Yeah acouple of a couple. Episodes ago you had one of our colleagues David Dander,who was talking about Magic Academy, a Google, so David, and I had done thatprogram together and I it was really really helpful. Ithelp me professionally. It helped me personally and afterwards what I did Iwent and I soid ove started looking for what what was all this based on likewhat was it built upon Imao Lesa, a brief description of magic academy likejust a couple sentences to describe it absolutely yeah Magic Academy was a training programthat Google stood through. That would helpthem have better conversations with their clientsand better conversations with the Belvin with their teams. It's a seriesof fun creative exercises that you can use in different scenarios. Thank you. So sorry continue TN. You Ere do how you use that to in your everyday life yeah. So I went. I wanted to go deeperand find out more about it, so I ordered all these books in Sidof ofjust reading, consuming to understand more about thinking techniques, more aboutcreative, creative thinking, problem solving and there's all these differentphilosophies in schools and Soond sa from design thinking in the IDO teams.To whomever and from there you know for me, I started to modify riff boilit down. envolve, take the pieces from all these different disciplines that Iwanted to try out for myself and turn it intomy own, like mittale methodology, so yos to you, a question like how I makedecisions about things, I'm very, very flair with myself about like what am Itrying to sell for her and what the success with like what are my ideas?What are their pros and cons? How do I make better having Te Choices? Hav, Imake actions and how do I prioroitizism? I will say this, though one of the things I realized, that wasthe most helpful to me in Mi discipline or routine or prioritizing things washaving the right physical space, and so I'm actually talking to you now from mylittle Av Lae Room, which is I use as an office and I'm surrounded by posted notes on the wall that helped mestay really focused, that's interesting, so you always workfrom that same space, exactly always work for the same space.Give you a playe put you when you comin to the space. It's like getting ready.You know what it's like. If you, if anyone Ha's ever been on stage, youhave to bring yourself into that mental space, to get ready to go out on thestage or if you're, an athlete same thing so coming into a physical space,can help with that. Also, it allows you to walk away from it. Yeah it's like ait's an environmental trigger. I very is proven to be very effective, butthat kind of staxactly right exactly right. I remember so when we werewriting our books at the same time, our first ones, or I only have one, but Istarted the second you're on your third or for fourth hello. Well, you there sorry to break up for just a second for yeah. I just started writing I'vJust just about stortwriting, my fulth, and I remember when we were originallywriting these our first books a couple years ago. We started talking all thetime and commiserating about the process of writing a book which is somuch more difficult than I could have ever imagined, and we would talk aboutlike one of the things that was difficult was working on this thingeveryday, and even though you have stacks of papers with everythingwritten feeling like you're, really not making progress is very hard to sort of...

...understand in some visual way of howfar along you are, and that was very difficult. One thing another thing forme was just the process of staring at the blank page and trying it sometimesit felt like squeezing blood from a stone, and it required me to sort ofrethink about discipline and how I cultivate it. So did that play a rolefor you to aside from the physical environment. So how did you overcomethe resistance that writers so often feel toward? Actually writing, or wasit something that came easily to you and you struggled with other pieces ofit? I mean being able to talk with you on adaily basis. Was a god sentence, because I remember when the my commissioning editor waslike: okay, great, you know right so write the book as like cool. So do Iwork with my project, O o talk to her each week ard. Every day to we pain,the chapter together, like Thow, we were used to working reallycollabratively with people like twenty people would work on a deck of Googleand he said no write it and send it to us and like well. What do you mean?Hi's, like I said, write it and send it to us as a terrifying yeah it's like, but how I mean I wrote a hundred and twentyfive thousand words like. How do you do that he's? Like listen, you're, notwriting a book, don't think about it in the macrow, because it will absolutelyoverwhelm and paralyze you all you have to do is rigt, like I will say, Lik, yes, the process oflike a really clear table of content. I posted things on the wall and I mapkedthem out. So my job wasn't to write a book each day. My job was to take takesome print outs that was on the wall and I'm like great. You just have towrite this section and I forced myself to write two thousand words a day,because I knew that if I did two thousand words Aday, I would meet mydeadlanes and some days those twothousand words were easy and cameout of me in an hour some days. They were terriblesome days. They wereterrible words and some days you know it took eight hours to write thosetwohsand words every day was different and I realizelike no, the rating process is so up and down, and there were days when I didn't wantto do it, and so I would just I would try and find someone who's easier thatI could talk about and in theer days when you're feeling, rediins fined andthe mewse has visited you, and so you, you write the thing that you yourequires a bit more thinking impression and then, when it was over, I s like Oh,my God that was wild, I'm so glad I did. I wanted toexperiment like well. How do you do that right right when you're done? It'slike? You can hardly believe that you created this thing that now exists inthe world right. I don't about you, but you ever go back and look back atSomethong, you've written think, Oh fogot, I wrote that you mean in theprocess of raiting the book, something that went to the cunting room floor.You mean, and actually I mean now like if you were to go, like your let's say:You're traveling to a conference Youre speaking at, and you see your book onthe on the Shelf, the store and you pick it up and you're like Oh yeah, Iwrote that part there. I said I fogot about that part. He just a randomlyfick to a page. Yes actually, so I actually go back andreread parts of the book a lot, because when I write my keynotes or if I'm working on a piece of writing for anarticle or something I go back to the book, to give me some of the wording. So I go back to it a lot and yet Istill will find those pieces that I forgot about, and it's so funny. Likethe other day, I was reading through one of the chapters that I hadn't comethrough in a long time and interesting thing happened where I'mreading it and then it was almost as if I forgot that it was my book and I hadwritten it because then I started laughing at one piece and I was like.Oh, my God, this is, is this Nabal gazing? This is so. I was almostembarrassed, but at the same time there was that moment of pride were like youknow what that was funny good for me.

Yeah I get gay. Do you say that youfeel the same way or you experience that too, because I guess it's when youexternalize something from yourself and you go away from it for so long. You dosimply forgure. I doesn't necessarily feel like the further the further timeplasses, the less of you. It is you sort of forgure about it and that'swhat I want to know all that work that we've done over the years in ourcareers. Where is that a can't point? A it's true, and- and this is one of thethings I would think about. My father said to me- you know he's like it's funny. When Ifirst started like I started life as a Leb, develop en he's. Like it's funnyyou you know, I go to work with a van load of tools. You just take your handsand I'm like well. I appreciate that. But, what's funny is that everything Imake is gone within a year, whereas you build houses ant. I can still look atand drive by an point to right, there's, no tangible, concrete output that youcan see and that's difficult when you were writing and had those baddays and you lose motivation, you mentioned a Muse, did you ha? Do youhave some sense of what it it? What it is that Reinvigori you are remotivatesyou like what is it that gives you that kick that translates into some sort ofinspiration, helps you ke going miactually really like that question,because I love anything that so speaks to like how do you get the mewse tomanifest like? How do you get it to come to you because, like some days you'R, justlike oh my gosh, it's Pliy, you know you're on a flight or wherever you wereand it's flowing out of you other tay other days. You know you're like. Whereare you? Why have you forsaken me yeah? There are definitely whether it's environmental triggerwhether it's exercises you do for me the other day. So this week I got up and I was up really early andI just wasn't feeling inspired to really start the work pad and ISS Goinotense, but I seen the house bebecause. It makes me start the day with an easywind makes me feel like I've been productede and done something and it'ssomehow it's like it's like training of doing it. EXI's like warming up. Itstarts to get my brain in that place, and the other thing is: You might laugh at this, but I listento sort of like disco and dance music when I went ut t in order to like Rualyfocus and I'll put my headphones on and it's become such a Pavlovian. Respocthave I been response now that I'll put my headphones on, forget to press playon the music and realize that I've been working for an hour without listeningto anything its just the act of having the headphones on my head. That tankesme focus. That's so interesting. I work with headphones too, but it was more agoogle and facebook. I would wear the big isolation ones with B Brown orwhite noise like blasting through, but that's because there's so many peoplearound versus at home- and I still feel like it focuses me so totally and IcoudGaer, not the only one, the cleaning you'R, not the Onling, I've. Never myhouse was never as clean as when I'm writing like because it's a form ofproprastination for me, but a form that actually is productive. So I totallyhear yea, that's that's it. I know that people coan think of it asprocrestination, but if you actually leverage it as a tool to get you intothe mental space in order to work and be productive, then it's notprocrestint ISO. It's just like stretching before going on a rum right.Can I share my news, please I don't thinking about this on the spot. It's alittle, embarrassing too, but it's reading right. Reading, people'sarticles or stuff ing books are online or watching videos where to me it's soclearly phoney, but it has to be on something I care about. So if it'ssomething I care about or write about, or have an opinion about, and somebodypublishes something with their opinion...

...that I feel is either selfserving orjust totally wrong or phony or BS. It fires me up like nothing else, which isa good and a bad thing, and you know partially it's because I'm probably alittle jealous that this person has a platform, and that happens a lot moreoften before I had the book. Obviously, but whenever I'm feeling uninspiredI'll go read, you know, someone's blog, that I can'tstand and that kind of fires me up and it's it's not a good pase out a bad tay.It's just, I have to admit it is what it is. It is who I am so it's justsomething I need to employ more often, actually, as I find tatos ofinspiration, yeah, whatever gets you into theirspace yeah, whatever it gets, you there yeah, I you know we tau. We talkedabout this before, actually, which was how do you when you're giving apresentation or when you're hosting an event. I know for me whenever I was infront of ing one on the stage and a Rumy to like get into my flow and knowthat I can do this, which is very similar to you know. CanI write the a book whatever I needed, to be able to land a joke in the firstfive minutes, and then I knew I had them whether I actually had the ballornot, but in my head I knew I had it same thing if, like okay, if it getsyou to your space by reading a blog of someone who you know, is full of Shitand then get you fid up amazing. That gets you to that space. So I think weall have to it's a helpful exercise, Principale to think about the thingsthat get us to a different mindset that allows us to do the thingthat we're trying to do. If we're not feeling it initially, there's nothing.There's no feeling there's no better feeling when you're on sage- and youknow you have the audience- and it's so hard to describe to other people thatdon't ow particularly enjoy public speaking,which is a lot of people. But I've heard comedians talk about that too,and I just heard you say it and I will just say it's such a powerful feeling and I don't Knowwheri what exactly itis that there's sometimes an energy where you feel like you have them, andsometimes you don't, but I agree the first laugh. I get. I'm fine like I'mvery nervous up until I get my first laugh and then I'm totally at ease andI'm in it. so that's a random side note, but it daystransition into another puession. I had around exercises or tools that you use to sortsome of this stuff out. So are their frameworks, or you know mentalexercises that you use to figure out. You know either the direction of your day, yourcareer, the chapter, your rating. I do remember once we had this conversationaround something I'd forgotten the name of it. But there was this exercise where you tought these itwas,a ven diagram of your passion. whath the world needs what you're good atthat was an example of what I'm talking about. So I don't know if you want toelaborate on that. If you know what I'm talking about or the yeah and Hav beenhelpful, I do I do Ido. I mean anyone for Google, this Naw and I actuallyhighly recommend they do, which is Iky guy. I kiga it's a Japanese concept andit talks about Tyeu reason for being that's Youre, GN, to figure out yourlife or meaning or purpose. That's probably the best preame work. There isour there in my opinion, because it asked You ojus sort of say,okay. Well, imagine you and I are sitting in the room and we're going through it. You say I'mtrying to figure these things out. I would say great tell me all the thingsthat you love. Don't limit yourself. Tell me all the things that you're goodat tell me all the things that you can be paid for. Tell me all the thingsthat you think you know what the world needs and we sort of go from there andit helps you figure out things like passion, mission, profession or Pation,and when you get all these kind of working together, that's that kind ofthat's a very top level description of how that concept was to sort of find the stotion of it Hyguy al sort ofmeaning in life. For me,...

...and I've done this with friends a lotwho n I'm lucky that my sort of friend networker they like you they're allextremely creative and engaged people, and their problem is hat. They don't starve the ideas theydrown in them, and it's really what I'll do is I'll lookwith them to help them, throw out all the challenges that theythink they're fixing to organize them and group them to start to say well,okay! Well, what does successut like he? What are we actually solving for onefriend in the last year, really challented very senior produceFr in the confence ace as like? I think I'm going NA buy this music venue tohours outside of where I live, but I also think I want to open a retailstore an hour of the other direction. I'm like okay, let's, let's get thepost a Osand, that's fig of these things ar like what are we actuallySOLV in for year? It's very true and it's a very big struggle for a lot ofcreative people, myself included, which is your your imagination, is so bigthat when you start to work on something you're, really limiting yourpicking something and narrowing it down, which means all the other possibilitiesare out of the picture, and that's very difficult when your mind thrives onexpansion and right and ideas to sort of narrow downis almost painful andthat's that ha the word painful yeahand it's, I think, it's very hard for people that don't feel that tounderstand it. But it's a very real, very real thing, which is actuallyanother reason. Why to me meaning and discipline go together with justbecause you know when I can do lots of different things that are aligned withmy meaning and my purpose, but they're never going to happen unless theycultivate the discipline to focus on one at a time, and that's why I don't think I can have onewithout the other might be different for others. It's funny. You say it justta Oe thought on that was I'm literally looking at the war right now n. Thepostof notes that are directly in my line of site when I'm placing forwardsis a book that I have started. Writing as a test to do arself published to seeif Ike, an experiment with the Amazon Algorithm, which I haven't finished,because I ended up moving from tront unto e centers, the book, Thefourthbook I'm working on with the publisher, as well as in the companyingTrurd game. The book that I actually want to write, which is about thesekinds of thinking techniques, which the publisher said Yes to once. I deliverthe fourth and fifth projects and a horror, screenplay and they're all likethings. I dessperately want to work on, but you have to be so ruthless withyour time. Otherwise, you'll never do anything too. That question as welllike when, if you were a pacer like a finear oil painter, when do you decideyou're finished? That's another question like how do you know when you don't you really don't? I onceread an interview: If I don't remember the name of the person, it was thishuge director or writer in the movie in the movies and they askd that questionlike how do you know when you're when you're done and tha, he said somethinglike when the studio forces me to stop yeah and- and he said something like,and I never really know. I finally understand what what thetreatment or transcript needs once the movies out in theaters. Then I have theperspective to realize which way I should have gone, and I find thatcomforting, because I think we all when we're writing were creating somethingwe struggle with that. At least I do so. I am going to whindthis down with a new thing, I'm going to do with each guess, which is ask adifferent random question at the end, beach episode or each in a rew ratherand today I want to know what book has had the most impact onyour life and if you're, not a reader wo, also set O. Give me a movie orsomething like that.

I almost hate to answer this questionwith Ge with the book I'm going to say, because it sounds like the kind of bookyou would answer if you're Tim, Faris or Simon, so thenex Sadac whatever hisname. Is it's hard to how to win friends andinfluence people yeah? That was a true question. TNOW, youwere supposed to say: Ween Ow, O Knowtis, a fantasticgive it a fivestar rating on Mzncom, Yeah Wen. I agree with that that that impact ofthat book so just tell us a little bit about the impact Id had on you and Y and thenBrekin t it just mad meet like. Basically, it kick started my thinking in thedirection that, as in the last ow years Ean, I read this in my ninetee a ormaybe it two thousand one I forget, but I now think my mantra in life is askpeople what they want and find a way to give it to them, and I think you know, I think, that'sprobably a theme or a sentral premise, perhaps even in the book, which is, I remember, distinct like in that book,you no whats the sweed Tesan Wat. The person can hear it's the sound of theirown mane, just use someone's name, I buils a Pol. It makes them like you,it's so wonderfully easy and accessible, and I thinkit wasright. Written Lik, I wan to Oe Thousand Nine hundred and twenty fiveyeah, and it just goes to show that, like that was something that was thefirst person who brought universal human truths to life in an accessibleway that genneminely helps people, unlike others, Co, coff Andand has STUthetested time te cause of that. It's not deripative, it's actually original,and I so I love that book and I actually will occasionally we read itevery few years yeah and it's it informs a lot to how I think ofcommunication, which is going to be the theme of the next episode aroundcommunicating and to the point you made in that in that book around for people want to feel Hurd and understood andlisten to Uhhuh, and when you can do that, it's a win win because they are moreopen to your needs and your thoughts and feelings, and it really it goesback. I did that circle, I don't know if you were there. I itis presentationon this II Youtube immersions, Ay right like because we had all these repsgoing in there talking about how great youtube was, instead of asking likewhat you know, the buyer needed and and that presentation as a lot influencedby that book. So I'm right there with you. I love that I remember the feeback that ninety nine people said it was absolutely fantastic. The greatestpresentation of the day, AF one person said it was garbage. I was about to say know who that personwas, but you know what I'm going to take the highroad on this one nd yeah,that's right, yeah! I thought I'm then I know were wrappingup, but one of the things t I really practiced was if you were running likea meeting or a all day workshop or whatever it is. When someone sayssomething call back to it later and say: Oh Julie, you said that hey see if youyou mentioned that and you can connect those tots because it just shows peoplethat you listened and then you car enough about what they were saying.Abset. I so simple, butit's simple, but it's hard for a lot of people. I'velearned because listening comes fairly easy to me. It's just like the natureof way, I'm as a curious person, but so many people. I know it requires so mucheffort, but it's well it's well. It's time willspend and cultivating that skill, because it helps in every area andevery and when you get the hang of it, it's pretty simple, so and verypowerful. Obviously so I hope you leave this podcast feelingHurd understood and listen to well ego. We certainly love hearing you andlistening to you and thank you so much...

...for being here. Thank you so much Borhaving me, I do feel like I do feel understood. Thank you so much thanks.We bybye.

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